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old pubs in AppBuilder

General questions about NeoAppBuilder - our rapid application development tool for building HTML5, web and mobile apps.

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old pubs in AppBuilder

Postby stevec » Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:44 am

wow. Looks like I am going to have to go back and relearn almost everything when AppBuilder comes out.

Just a few questions;

Will the old pub files be able to be imported into AppBuilder?

Will the 'Actions' be the same and in NeoBook? I don't see a 'run' or most of the other commands that I am used to?

One thing I am going to need is a course on JavaScript.

Thanks all.
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Re: old pubs in AppBuilder

Postby Gaev » Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:16 am

Steve:

Will the old pub files be able to be imported into AppBuilder?

IMHO, I don't think so ... NeoBook builds exe programs that you run under Windows (after downlloading/installing them) ... WebAppBuilder produces Apps i.e. webpages that can be accessed from any modern Browser (running under any Operating System) simply by typing its web address (url) in the Browser's Address Box.

Imagine the security implications of any web page being able to change/delete files on your local disk ... or the Windows Registry (which would have no meaning for the guys using Apple/Android devices.

Will the 'Actions' be the same and in NeoBook? I don't see a 'run' or most of the other commands that I am used to?

Do you really want a webapge that you access in your Browser to run programs in your machine ? ... and again, what use is that to people using Apple/Android devices ?

One thing I am going to need is a course on JavaScript.

This is a good place to start ... http://www.w3schools.com/default.asp
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Re: old pubs in AppBuilder

Postby stevec » Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:53 am

Gaev

Excellent points. Than I guess my question would be is AppBuilder a 'parallel' program and if so will Neobook still be developed?
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Re: old pubs in AppBuilder

Postby HPW » Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:14 am

.... and if so will Neobook still be developed?


Hello,

Since resources are the limiting factor here, this is a matter of prioritys.
neobook 6 was discussed in the past, and a few things might be on the feature list like unicode support etc.
neosoft is not apple with 92000 employes, so now neoappbuilder is the top-priority.
And since this is a big project, we have to be patient with our wishes on neobook 6.

Just my few cents.

Regards
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Re: old pubs in AppBuilder

Postby Neosoft Support » Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:18 pm

As HPW said, we are concentrating on NeoAppBuilder right now, but we do plan on revisiting NeoBook later this year if possible. Much of
the work done on NeoAppBuilder (which supports Unicode) will be transferable to a future edition of NeoBook.

NeoAppBuilder is still in beta test so not all features have been implemented yet. When completed, you should be able to create many types of apps without knowing much or anything about JavaScript. Of course, if you do have experience with JavaScript you'll be able to do advanced things.

A limited NeoBook pub import feature is planned, but because of differences between the way Windows apps and Web/Mobile apps work, it will not be possible to simply import and run all NeoBook apps in NeoAppBuilder. Much of the scripts and logic will be transferable, but security limits on Web/Mobile platforms generally limit access to the file system, registry, etc. and make it impossible to fully import pub files.
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Re: old pubs in AppBuilder

Postby luishp » Thu Mar 05, 2015 4:50 am

wow. Looks like I am going to have to go back and relearn almost everything when AppBuilder comes out.
One thing I am going to need is a course on JavaScript.


I see NeoAppBuilder as an excelent tool to learn web technologies.
As a teacher myself i find it terribly useful, as it will allow beginners and advanced developers to create apps very quickly.
I think It is even suitable for childrens.
Of course right now it lacks documentation and many functionalities but i can easily imagine how it will be very soon and all the possibilities to extend it.
Under my point of view NeoAppBuilder is one of the most promising projects i have seen in many time.
Luis Hernández - SinLios Soluciones Digitales
http://sinlios.com
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Re: old pubs in AppBuilder

Postby stevec » Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:37 am

thanks Dave for the info.

Over the years, using Neobook has made my job more efficient. I'd hate to lose that functionality.
For example, right now I use it to install software on PC's that I support. Not a coding guru (like others here) I use the basic program, having dabbled in the code region
I find that some like the parse and other commands, I get lost. How often I wish one of the guru's would write a "Neobook Coding for Dummies", I'd have to buy a copy.

One feature that is often very much underrated is the support here.

Many thanks;
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Re: old pubs in AppBuilder

Postby Neosoft Support » Thu Mar 05, 2015 12:42 pm

Luis,

That's very encouraging! Thank you!
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Re: old pubs in AppBuilder

Postby fkapnist » Fri May 20, 2016 5:56 am

Gaev wrote:Steve:

Will the old pub files be able to be imported into AppBuilder?

IMHO, I don't think so ... NeoBook builds exe programs that you run under Windows (after downlloading/installing them) ... WebAppBuilder produces Apps i.e. webpages that can be accessed from any modern Browser (running under any Operating System) simply by typing its web address (url) in the Browser's Address Box.

Imagine the security implications of any web page being able to change/delete files on your local disk ... or the Windows Registry (which would have no meaning for the guys using Apple/Android devices.

Will the 'Actions' be the same and in NeoBook? I don't see a 'run' or most of the other commands that I am used to?

Do you really want a webapge that you access in your Browser to run programs in your machine ? ... and again, what use is that to people using Apple/Android devices ?

One thing I am going to need is a course on JavaScript.

This is a good place to start ... http://www.w3schools.com/default.asp



To be quite honest, I don't see why a windows EXE program should access local files and an AppBuilder application should not. Is there a bias in favor of EXE programmers? Remember, Netscape was once king of the mountain. Now the big propriety companies introduced new rules about web browsers to protect their advertising-delivery platforms (you though all the extra security was for your holiday photos?) Yes, if a webpage could run local programs it could cause some mischief, but it could also add much functionality (assuming the programmer is honest)...

:mrgreen:

.
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Re: old pubs in AppBuilder

Postby fkapnist » Fri May 20, 2016 6:08 am

stevec wrote:thanks Dave for the info.

Over the years, using Neobook has made my job more efficient. I'd hate to lose that functionality.
For example, right now I use it to install software on PC's that I support. Not a coding guru (like others here) I use the basic program, having dabbled in the code region
I find that some like the parse and other commands, I get lost. How often I wish one of the guru's would write a "Neobook Coding for Dummies", I'd have to buy a copy.

One feature that is often very much underrated is the support here.

Many thanks;



Every time I get stuck with Javascript (almost always) I find examples with Google that I can use. I tend to forget everything from scratch. I also made my own library of javascripts that I use over and over, but I don't remember any of them by heart... Neobook Coding for Dummies is this forum!
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Re: old pubs in AppBuilder

Postby dpayer » Fri May 20, 2016 7:26 am

fkapnist wrote:To be quite honest, I don't see why a windows EXE program should access local files and an AppBuilder application should not. Is there a bias in favor of EXE programmers?


Yes, there is a bias in favor of EXE programmers - FOR CERTAIN THINGS.

I do NOT want to have a webpage be loaded in an IFrame that can execute on my computer without my knowledge. This is what you are advocating the power to do.

There is quite a long history of building in limits to Javascript so it works inside the browser but cannot affect the file system directly. You do NOT want a web page to execute files (imagine a hidden line of code in a page: del c:\*.jpg /s ).

I am sure there will be a way to create hybrid apps, running a webpage inside a NB app. But don't expect webpages/javascripting to have the same lower level access that an .exe file will have.
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Re: old pubs in AppBuilder

Postby fkapnist » Fri May 20, 2016 7:39 am

dpayer wrote:
fkapnist wrote:To be quite honest, I don't see why a windows EXE program should access local files and an AppBuilder application should not. Is there a bias in favor of EXE programmers?


Yes, there is a bias in favor of EXE programmers - FOR CERTAIN THINGS.

I do NOT want to have a webpage be loaded in an IFrame that can execute on my computer without my knowledge. This is what you are advocating the power to do.

There is quite a long history of building in limits to Javascript so it works inside the browser but cannot affect the file system directly. You do NOT want a web page to execute files (imagine a hidden line of code in a page: del c:\*.jpg /s ).

I am sure there will be a way to create hybrid apps, running a webpage inside a NB app. But don't expect webpages/javascripting to have the same lower level access that an .exe file will have.


You are right, a web page can do harmful things "anonymously." I am not advocating anything. Just reminding of how browsers once worked. An EXE program and Android app can usually be traced back to the programmer, but not always. During the old Netscape days you could access files with Windows commands (open, save) within an iframe. But no more. And by the way, online Java apps can also access your local files from a webpage, can't they? The issue of a "trustworthy" site is up to the end user (and Google blacklist police)....
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Re: old pubs in AppBuilder

Postby fkapnist » Fri May 20, 2016 7:50 am

HPW wrote:
.... and if so will Neobook still be developed?


Hello,

Since resources are the limiting factor here, this is a matter of prioritys.
neobook 6 was discussed in the past, and a few things might be on the feature list like unicode support etc.
neosoft is not apple with 92000 employes, so now neoappbuilder is the top-priority.
And since this is a big project, we have to be patient with our wishes on neobook 6.

Just my few cents.

Regards


Neobook (and Neopaint) are among the top all-time programs. I am surprised Corel didn't buy them out (and run them to the ground like they did with PaintShopPro). NeoAppBuilder is excellent for creating HTML5 that can be inserted into Neobook WebBrowser objects. There should be a programmatic bridge between the two.

:D

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Re: old pubs in AppBuilder

Postby fkapnist » Fri May 20, 2016 8:03 am

From the news I have read, the sales of mobile devices has dropped considerably. Apple lost over a billion dollars in sales during the past year. I use an Android touch tablet, but only as a YouTube toy. You cannot do serious processing on a $50 tablet. And most such users apparently don't even want to buy software apps. That is why I prefer to stick with Neobook. I foresee a return-trend to large screens and high powered computers.

But NeoAppBuilder is a very good way to create HTML that can be used in Neobook programs, Android Apps, or just regular web pages.

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Re: old pubs in AppBuilder

Postby fkapnist » Fri May 20, 2016 10:04 am

fkapnist wrote:
dpayer wrote:
fkapnist wrote:To be quite honest, I don't see why a windows EXE program should access local files and an AppBuilder application should not. Is there a bias in favor of EXE programmers?


Yes, there is a bias in favor of EXE programmers - FOR CERTAIN THINGS.

I do NOT want to have a webpage be loaded in an IFrame that can execute on my computer without my knowledge. This is what you are advocating the power to do.

There is quite a long history of building in limits to Javascript so it works inside the browser but cannot affect the file system directly. You do NOT want a web page to execute files (imagine a hidden line of code in a page: del c:\*.jpg /s ).

I am sure there will be a way to create hybrid apps, running a webpage inside a NB app. But don't expect webpages/javascripting to have the same lower level access that an .exe file will have.


You are right, a web page can do harmful things "anonymously." I am not advocating anything. Just reminding of how browsers once worked. An EXE program and Android app can usually be traced back to the programmer, but not always. During the old Netscape days you could access files with Windows commands (open, save) within an iframe. But no more. And by the way, online Java apps can also access your local files from a webpage, can't they? The issue of a "trustworthy" site is up to the end user (and Google blacklist police)....


My question is this: Why is a Java container in a web page considered more trusted than an iframe? They can both do the same damage to local files if you are looking for malicious code. My own opinion is that iframes became discredited in order to protect the advertising-delivery platforms of the companies that villianized iframes, but went on using them for their own ad sense... a double standard.


"We are working on a Windows platform, with Java 2 SDK 1.4.1 and the Java container Jakarta-Tomcat 4.1.29.
Creating trusted applets with the access rights to the local clients' file system, even to this day remains a vital topic. A number of problems, by virtue of the specificity, can be executed only on the client side. Quite often, programmers unfamiliar with trusted applets technology accept it as an impossibility to work with client files and search for other ways to work. However, such ways exist and can be widely used in most variations."

http://www.developer.com/java/other/article.php/3303561/Creating-a-Trusted-Applet-with-Local-File-System-Access-Rights.htm

Update: I should add that they are currently out to destroy Flash swf in the same way they discredited iframes, probably for the same reason, by the same folks whose motto once was 'don't be evil.' Now they are betting on alpha releases.




:?:

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