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thinking about creating an encoder plugin... is it worth it?

Questions about NeoBook PlugIns

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thinking about creating an encoder plugin... is it worth it?

Yes, make it!
15
79%
No, I don't think so
4
21%
It doesn't matter
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 19

thinking about creating an encoder plugin... is it worth it?

Postby Guest » Wed Mar 09, 2005 7:50 am

Guys, I have the complete source/library for Lame, BladeEnc, and Monkey's Audio encoder... I was thinking of making a another plug-in. I thought this would be great, however I dunno if this is worth it. Since I might seduce music copyrights. I dunno if I might violate anything with this plug-in. So I'm asking... will I make it? or not?
Guest
 

Postby Guest » Wed Mar 09, 2005 12:02 pm

Yes If it possible to do, I need it for my program....

Congratulations for your other plugin
Guest
 

Postby Guest » Wed Mar 09, 2005 9:07 pm

what is an encoder?

it's a piece of program that allows you to convert .WAV/.AVI files to .MP3 and/or MPG, etc. This means it will compress your music files to preserve disk space, and without (almost) reduction of quality.

also If I got a lot of time, I also have this library that can RIP audio CDs and convert them to .WAV files this way it will allow you to convert them to .MP3 format.
Guest
 

Postby Guest » Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:37 am

Hello ReynoldLariza,

Yes, such an encoder is very appealing, but the MP3 licenses are not!

Have a look here if you want to feel distressed...

If I understood their license agreement well (and forgive me if I'm wrong - I have seen universities only from pictures) it is possible for the developer who does not develop the encoder (only using it - Neobookers) to obtain the encoder from a third-party LICENSED developer (which could be you - ReynoldLariza).
If you would sell us the plug-in (with your licensed encoding technology) nothing would be wrong???

If I'm not mistaken the developer of another multimedia authoring tool (known as DOT in previous Neobook forums...) has done the same thing.

My Eurocent,
Guest
 

Postby Guest » Thu Mar 10, 2005 5:34 am

Thanks for the good reply :)

The encoding technology wasn't actually made by me. If I am I can easily get and pay the patent license then sell the plug-in.

All I'm going to do is to interface it directly with NeoBook. The encoder I got (namely, LAME) was created by other party which is distributed as open-source too. Itself has a license of not making a direct profit just by using the encode technology. You can use it in any almost any type of software license, but the encoder itself must remain open-source and distributed as is.

Anyway, to make sure I'm right, I sent an inquiry to mp3licensing.com which you posted.

and besides there are lots of commercial players that uses this encoder technology. And it is also distributed with full source which anybody can modify. So that I think it's safe to interface it with neobook, I'm not making a new encoding technology, nor steal one, I'm just going to interface it.

here's some link to it
http://www.hot.ee/smpman/mp3/
Guest
 

Postby Guest » Thu Mar 10, 2005 11:41 am

Hi again,

I don't think it's a matter of who produced the code or not: even if it's Open Source, Thomson says part of it is theirs and the distributor has to pay. If the Lame coders don't pay for it you will have to pay for it and this is just the thing that worries me...

please, read this

Regards,
Guest
 

Postby Guest » Thu Mar 10, 2005 11:57 pm

Frank wrote:Hi again,

I don't think it's a matter of who produced the code or not: even if it's Open Source, Thomson says part of it is theirs and the distributor has to pay. If the Lame coders don't pay for it you will have to pay for it and this is just the thing that worries me...

please, read this

Regards,


you're in all sides correct! I had read thoroughly the FAQ's, readmes, and the page you linked. And by all means I cannot pay such while I just give the plug-in FREE.

After a day of research, I have concluded not to implement or use any part of MP3 encoding/decoding technology at all.

oh well, I don't have to ask... they're an institution, and they need royalty fees. It's not that I don't like Mp3, I just don't like greediness.

I said this, coz why did they gived the source code freely? and then after it, ask for payment for each units of the software that uses it. They must be really poor (or somebody with them are just that greedy).

Then I had to find another replacement format. So I found OggVorbis.

http://www.xiph.org/

Xiph.Org Foundation is a non-profit corporation dedicated to protecting the foundations of Internet multimedia from control by private interests. Our purpose is to support and develop free, open protocols and software to serve the public, developer and business markets.


http://www.vorbis.com/
Ogg Vorbis is a completely open, patent-free, professional audio encoding and streaming technology with all the benefits of Open Source.

http://www.theora.org/
Theora is an open video codec being developed by the Xiph.org Foundation as part of their Ogg project (It is a project that aims to integrate On2's VP3 video codec, Ogg Vorbis audio codec and Ogg multimedia container formats into a multimedia solution that can compete with MPEG-4 format).
Theora is derived directly from On2's VP3 codec; currently the two are nearly identical, varying only in framing headers, but Theora will diverge and improve from the main VP3 development lineage as time progresses.

http://www.icecast.org/
# Icecast, the project, is a collection of programs and libraries for streaming audio over the Internet. This includes: icecast, a program that streams audio data to listeners
# libshout, a library for communicating with Icecast servers
# IceS, a program that sends audio data to Icecast servers

No licensing fees, no patenting, even free for commericial use.

No wonder, I have seen lots of games and players that plays ogg files:wink:

In summary:
ok, my apology if I won't be able to release the encoder plug-in :(

oh! Frank, thanks for enlightning me about this issue :)
Guest
 

Postby Guest » Fri Mar 11, 2005 2:27 am

Hi ReynoldLariza,

In summary:
ok, my apology if I won't be able to release the encoder plug-in

oh! Frank, thanks for enlightning me about this issue


Don't mention it. Some time ago I too wanted to create a wrapper in VB (ocx) to reference 'lame_enc.dll' but decided to drop it after having read the MP3 license agreements.

Just wondering and brainstorming: would there be any problem in not putting the encoder in an End-User application, but just checking if (e.g. the commandline encoder as an EXE) the Lame encoder is present on the user's system and only then revealing all the necessary functions in the GUI?!

Anyway, thanks ReynoldLariza for your thoughts on this matter and willingness to create a plug-in for the community, but you know: there's always a small group (Thomson/Frauenhofer) spoiling it for everyone...
BTW, Ogg Vorbis is a nice choice too, too bad too many people only know of the existence of MP3!

Regards,
Guest
 

Postby Guest » Fri Mar 11, 2005 7:01 am

Frank, If a plugin use the LAME to encode, the LAME developer already paid the license, so you can write a plugin to encode. You don´t have to double pay the license to Fraunhoffer, because you are interfacing with LAME. My 0,3 cents.
Guest
 

Postby Guest » Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:36 am

Hello Alberto,

Are you really sure? Where did get this information?

Please read this reply given to someone dealing with the same problem(taken from the forum at http://www.hydrogenaudio.org)

We (the Lame project) are providing you an implementation of the Mp3 technology. By providing you this implementation for free under the LGPL license, you can save time/money that you would otherwise have to spend in order to have such an implementation.
However, the Mp3 technology is covered by several patents in many countries. This means that you might (according to your country) still have to pay the fee covering the use of the technology.

To be more clear, you have 2 main choices:
* license an exploitation agreement from ThomsonMM. In this case it is cheaper thanlicensing both exploitation rights and technology implementation from Thomson, and you can legally distribute the mp3 encoding engine with your product.
* do no release the mp3 encoding engine with your product, but explain to the end-user how to find such encoding engine and how to allow your product to use it.


the last possibility is more or less like the solution I mentioned earlier (check for existence Lame commandline executable) OR ... (which gives IMHO the same result) you could reference the DLL in a plug-in without embedding it...

Regards,
Guest
 

See How Another Project Deals With This

Postby Guest » Fri Mar 11, 2005 11:05 am

Audacity is an Open Source Audio Editing Tool that requires the lame .dll to process MP3...

You may (or may not!) be interested to see how they deal with this issue.

http://audacity.sourceforge.net/
Guest
 

Postby Guest » Fri Mar 11, 2005 6:04 pm

If you use lame, you just use their exposed dll functions, not embed it.
Guest
 

Postby Guest » Sat Mar 12, 2005 12:31 am

Frank wrote:Hello Alberto,

Are you really sure? Where did get this information?

Please read this reply given to someone dealing with the same problem(taken from the forum at http://www.hydrogenaudio.org)

We (the Lame project) are providing you an implementation of the Mp3 technology. By providing you this implementation for free under the LGPL license, you can save time/money that you would otherwise have to spend in order to have such an implementation.
However, the Mp3 technology is covered by several patents in many countries. This means that you might (according to your country) still have to pay the fee covering the use of the technology.

To be more clear, you have 2 main choices:
* license an exploitation agreement from ThomsonMM. In this case it is cheaper thanlicensing both exploitation rights and technology implementation from Thomson, and you can legally distribute the mp3 encoding engine with your product.
* do no release the mp3 encoding engine with your product, but explain to the end-user how to find such encoding engine and how to allow your product to use it.


the last possibility is more or less like the solution I mentioned earlier (check for existence Lame commandline executable) OR ... (which gives IMHO the same result) you could reference the DLL in a plug-in without embedding it...

Regards,


the last one? ...
that can be easily done, but there would be a little frustration to the end-users of the plug-in. Anyways I think we can consider such. Until I found another way, I'll try to study for it further more. :)
Guest
 

Postby Guest » Sat Mar 12, 2005 7:24 am

@Domino,
Yes, I think Audacity uses the solution mentioned here previously. Thanks for this info!

@ReynoldLariza,
You wrote:
that can be easily done, but there would be a little frustration to the end-users of the plug-in

Yes, it's just like implementing SAPI5.1 in a project and telling the EndUser afterwards what to do to get things going! Like a man on the moon once said: It's a small step for BroadBand users but giant leap for Dial-Up users...

Enjoy your weekend.

Regards,
Guest
 

Postby Guest » Sun Mar 13, 2005 4:44 am

SAPI have another license schema. I´m using it in the email bundle.
Guest
 

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