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Compile to HTML5

PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:27 am
by RickOShay
Flash is dying - HTML5 is the future.

If there is one wish it would be that the next major version of Neobook - version 6 (?) is able to compile an application in HTML5 or platform independent file type. This would guarantee Neobook's survival and would extend its functionality - imo.

PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:35 pm
by HPW
Compiling to flash or html5 would need a complete different engine.
Plugins would be no more possible.

And such thing would need to compete with big players:

http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/edge/

http://expression.microsoft.com/en-us/gg998776

http://www.sencha.com/products/

http://maqetta.org/

So time (and neosoft) will tell where neobook will evolve.

Regards

Hans-Peter

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:48 am
by Neosoft Support
I think HTML5 output would be great, but HPW is right that plug-ins will not work in that environment.

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 3:43 pm
by Luiz Alfredo
I think that any implementation for Web Applications using Neobook will be great, even if we can not use Plug-ins.

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 5:15 pm
by Gaev
I think that "current plugins will not run" is a bit of a non issue ...

1) if you have a Rapid Application Builder for web applications ... its output is going to be in two parts ... a client side code that runs in Browsers ... and server side code (php, asp, java)

2) so you are limited to what the Browser is allowed to do within an OS (not always Windows) ... hence, a lot of the current plugins would not work in a Browser anyway

3) there would be other client side plugins (or add-ons) ... written in javascript, css, jQuery etc. ... that the App Developer could exploit


Not withstanding this ...

1) Be careful about a builder that outputs HTML5 ... different Browsers currently support the many features of HTML5 in varying degrees ... so you could endup with a Web App that crashes on (say) IE v6 and v7 ... the safer way is to exploit jQuery ... which works across a broad range of older Browsers.

2) While it is great to have your web application run on so many devices ... smartphones, tablets, laptops, desktops ... designing one application for so many different screen sizes is challenging ... interested parties can read up on discussions about "responsive/adaptive layout designs"

3) In order to test such output, you would need to either upload your server side output to your website ... or install a local web server and php/asp like product


Having said that ... I would love to see NeoWeb ... a NeoBook like Rapid Application Builder for Web Applications ... I think morphing NeoBook to output for windows and web Apps would make it very complex ... there are other such products but none have the great usability features that Dave has within NeoBook's IDE.

Gaev

PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 8:38 am
by dpayer
Luiz Alfredo wrote:I think that any implementation for Web Applications using Neobook will be great, even if we can not use Plug-ins.


This is a great topic to discuss. I think we can narrow the sense of expectations for NeoSoft by doing so.

I agree with Gaev that a NeoWeb would be a great product. I do see this as a separate product from Neobook as the platform it serves would be completely different (web vs. windows executable). So a big question to ask (which I am sure any software company like Neosoft would be asking before creating such a product) is:

Would you be willing to spend $100- $200 on a new app for this purpose?

Considering how much people spend on plugins (developers make VERY LITTLE MONEY! We can have DEC and Alberto testify here - example: only 6 people were willing to pre-order a new plugin at $20 that when done will obviously cost many times that. ) I wonder if anyone would be willing to pay more to get more. It seems that we all like it when an upgrade comes with major new functionality and we don't have to pay anything. I don't see Neosoft surviving with those kinds of expectations among those who use its software.

Here is something to consider: Since HTML5 is predominately TEXT (some canvas features have arrays of what may be binary data) why doesn't someone use NeoBook to CREATE an HTML5 application generator? I think (possibly with the aid of some plugins) most of the features that would be required to do so exist already.

Of course, it would require a fair amount of new knowledge of HTML5 standards plus Javascript functionality to do so. Take a look at some of the amazing Javascript libraries out there that use the functionality built into modern browsers. Plus, you have to account for the functional differences of browsers which we don't have to inside NB because it uses IE for the webbrowser object.

I am 50% done with a HTML creator app which uses the TINYMCE engine to process the HTML. There exist some amazing open source tools out there to effectively create HTML output (follow some of the links on that Javascript library link) and with increased knowledge of the standard: HTML5 & CSS3. We can do some very interesting stuff with NB.

I think it entirely possible to use what we have to engage the arena of web apps but it will require SOMEONE investing in the knowledge base to put all the pieces together. If you want Dave@NS to do it, I would expect it to be released as a new product line, apart from Neobook. Are people willing to pay for that?

David P.

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 2:05 am
by domino
Are people willing to pay for that?


Yes and I'd be first in the queue... and quite likely be happy to pay more than the $200 you suggest. - I know I could recoup that in days.

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 11:04 am
by Neosoft Support
This is an interesting concept. I think it would be difficult to graft an HTML compiler onto the existing NeoBook since it's so closely linked with the Windows API. A separate HTML5 App Builder would probably result in a better product, but I don't think we have the resources right now to develop both NeoBook 6 and a new HTML5 app simultaneously.

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 11:56 am
by TechMediaPlugins2010
There is so many competitors in this area, that I think it is not a good idea. It's better concentrate on modernize Neobook to be UNICODE compatible (transform it to Delphi XE2), that we can release plugins that make a lot more and compatible with modern SO like Windows 8 (Metro apps)