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Survey of Database Requirements ...

Questions about NeoBook PlugIns

Moderator: Neosoft Support

What option best describes your needs for deployment of databases within NeoBook Applications ?

I need NeoSoft to offer a plug-in that can use SQL files ; am willing to pay up to $100.
3
7%
I need NeoSoft to offer a plug-in that can use SQL files ; am willing to pay up to $50.
10
22%
I need NeoSoft to offer a plug-in that can use Access files ; am willing to pay up to $100.
2
4%
I need NeoSoft to offer a plug-in that can use Access files ; am willing to pay up to $50.
9
20%
I need NeoSoft to offer a plug-in that can provide Reporting functions for NeoBookDB ; am willing to pay up to $30
5
11%
I have one/more requests for enhancing the current NeoBookDB plug-in
10
22%
I am happy with the current state of the "NeoBook/Database" union
6
13%
What is NeoBookDB ?
0
No votes
What is a databse good for ?
1
2%
 
Total votes : 46

Re: ODBC CONNECTIONS

Postby dpayer » Wed Jul 05, 2006 4:10 pm

The Not Man wrote:Would be very good to have an ODBC connection plugin!

That would probably fix all the numerous connection issue at once.

I also voted :)


Though there are faster ways to access data, none are as universal as ODBC. There are complications though if you are expecting to use certain things, you will have to have older computers download drivers because MS doesn't allow them to be distributed.

Still it would be nice. I can think of many ways to use an ODBC plugin.

David P.
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Postby datadon » Thu Jul 06, 2006 2:25 pm

I think they future holds more cards for the internet than it does for standalone products. Even now we see a lot of integration between the two. Google is coming after MS using the internet as it base. DBF is an application database. So is Access. They have their place. And a good place it is. However...

If we are to keep pace with the changing times we will need to focus more on the "integration" if we are going to stay with NB. I use more browser windows in my aplications then anything else these days. It's a great combination of tools than can do many things.

I would like to see a real link between NB and MySql. It offers all the power of both worlds. Speaking personally, I am more familiar with PHP web platforms (although that is not saying a lot) and the use of MySql is very powerful in that world. If I could work with MySql within Neobook, my world would be sweet. And when I say work, I mean in a way that a knuckel head like me can use and understand. So my vote, if I haven't already, is for one of the web based solutions, MySql at the top of the list.
Don

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Neobook DB

Postby Bob123 » Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:38 pm

Hi All

I have made comments on past posts about this plugin, so I would like to begin by saying again that this is by far the most important plugin / addition to Neobook.
Dbase's are the number one function by far for all development tools and if Neobook improve NeoBookDB it will take Neobook to anew level and they will bring in more new users period.

1. Access connectivity
2. Master / Detail capability, a must for any dbase
3. Improved Grid Control, Combo Boxes, Date Picker, Child Grid all would be nice
4. Reports or Separate Report Plugin

And most of what has been already suggested,

I have one main suggestion which I think would move this situation forward.

If the NeobookDB plugin is to be what we want it to be then it is going to be a project on a par with Neobook its self. It will also require Neobook to purchase a number of 3rd party controls which will cost money, I noted as I am sure you all did that on the release of the 5.5 update Neobook were open to a payment to help support the update, no issue with that, their support is always top dollar.
My point, it has been a year since the release of 5 and business will have tailed off a bit on Neobook so the development budget will be low.

If we want NeobookDB to be developed and improved we will need to fine a way of supporting Neobook with the development.

If Neobook tell us they will build this thing that will be good enough for me, give me a way to pre-order Dave and I will. As for the price I would be happy to pay $100 maybe more for a new improved NeobookDB plugin, the current one is the best plugin for Neobook.
Put some of the features asked for in this thread into it and it will be off the scale, and will increase the Neobook user base.

Neobook is a great product and I believe that getting this plugin right will lift it to another level.

Best regards

Robert

I know I don't post a lot on the forum, I always fine what I wanted to say has been covered by someone. :wink:
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Postby christian » Fri Aug 18, 2006 1:52 am

Hi,
just finished a project using standard SQL-statements for a server-based database-program. It runs on all systems like DB2, MS-SQL, Postgres (I recommend this for testing, this SQL-DB you can install also locally and it's free(!), version 1.4.2 now). My program works on a CitrixSystem now, so the program and database are only on the server, nothing is based on the client side.

The bad message is, I couldn't do that with NeoBook any longer, switching all my programs from dBase to SQL. But I would like to use NB also for thatin the future, because the possibilities belonging to design, listviews, grids and reporting are better than the programming-language I use now.

After a lot of discussion with Dave about the multiuser-function of NeoBookdb it is a fact that dBase-files will never be able for serverbased professional solutions, because the NDX-files are built at runtime. There are some other reasons too for that. For local solutions NBdb is a very good solution.

For all other solutions we need an ODBCsolution via DNS.

Anybody here, who is working on that or on SQL-projects? I think, selling database-solutions, the price of a plugin is not the main problem, I would pay for that a good price.

If anybody is interested in a example to try, how it is working, I could make an upload (program, SQL-Statement for preparing the SQL-database, ...)

It would be nice to have a discussion about this...
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Postby Neosoft Support » Fri Aug 18, 2006 10:40 am

We're still seriously considering some type of ODBC or ADO-based plug-in. What many people don't realize is that this type of database requires a special database server in order to work, so it isn't going to be a complete, drop in replacement for NeoBookDB. Instead an ODBC/ADO plug-in would be a different type of database tool - much more powerful, but also more difficult to use, install and support. Some database expertise may be required in order to get it up and running.

NeoBookDB, in its current form, will still be useful for those who want a basic, easy-to-use database, but it would be nice to have an ODBC/ADO plug-in available for advanced users.
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Postby christian » Fri Aug 18, 2006 1:09 pm

Thank you for this anwer :), it would be very useful, when an ODBC/ADO plug-in becomes available. :!:

Is there any idea, when this project starts ...?
Christian
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Postby christian » Wed Aug 23, 2006 4:39 am

christian wrote:Thank you for this anwer :), it would be very useful, when an ODBC/ADO plug-in becomes available. :!:

Is there any idea, when this project starts ...?
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Postby djold1 » Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:34 am

This discussion of extended database handlers is interesting and it is good to see that NeoSoft is actively considering additional options for its DB.

However, in my personal opinion, all this is putting the cart before the horse. Having a more powerful record engine is fine, but if you can't display and edit the fields properly, it is a small victory at best.

I am not trying to beat a dead horse, and I realize that I have made the suggeston that NeoSoft implement a table or grid handler at least once every year since the original DB came out. So everyone is probably tired of this. Except for those of us that would like to handle record display at the same level that VB can and at the level that your customers have come to expect from other applications.

In the past, I have been asked for examples of what a good grid plug-in should do. This time I will suggest that anyone interested do a free download of eBay's Turbo Lister as an example.

http://pages.ebay.com/turbo_lister/

I assume that the DB engine for Turbo Lister is .mdb. Turbo Lister is something which I use all the time in my eBay business sideline.

Turbo Lister is not a big deal as far as a self contained DB is concerned. With enough time, anyone could create this product in NeoBook without a great deal of effort.

Except..

That there is no possible way that the current version of NeoBook and the DB could replicate the excellent editable grid or table handler that is integral to its operation. And it is this feature that makes the display and handling of the records very easy and very intuitive and very nice to look at.

In the past, the answer has been that there are free and 3rd party options available. Well, kinda. And certainly not something that I would consider for an application that I would have to support and sell to fairly critical customers. Of course, in the past the same argument applied to the availability of 3rd party SQL plug-ins as well.

Now NeoSoft has recognized by its recent comments that DB operation is critical and should be internal to NeoBook and under the support control of NeoSoft. I applaud that.

But..

We still are still stuck in limbo on getting a really useful Grid or Table engine and it appears that this subject is not even under consideration, although IMHO it should be available for the current DB long before a SQL or other data base plug-in is produced.

Sometimes I feel like Don Quixote, tilting at digital windmills... :shock:
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Postby Neosoft Support » Wed Aug 23, 2006 3:13 pm

Hi Pete,

Thanks for the example table application. Your point about the need for a better table/grid is well taken. Whatever is done with database plug-ins in the future will most likely include some type of enhanced table.

At this point, I don't want to start predicting when the next generation database plug-in will be released. It's simply too early in the process.

Primarily what we've been talking about in this thread is a client/server type database, which is really quite different than a stand-alone, desktop database. I'm afraid that some of us, and that includes me, may not be fully aware of the difference between the two types.

What I would really like to know is...

What type of database do you really want/need the most - Client/Server or Stand-Alone?

According to the survey, the requests are pretty evenly split between SQL, Access and updating the current NeoBookDB. SQL* in this context probably refers to a client/server type database. Access is sort of both, but primarily stand-alone. NeoBookDB is stand-alone.

A definition of SQL:

SQL (Structured Query Language) is a standard interactive and programming language for getting information from and updating a database. Most industrial-strength and many smaller database applications can be addressed using SQL. Each specific application will have its own slightly different version of SQL implementing features unique to that application, but all SQL-capable databases support a common subset of SQL.
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Postby domino » Wed Aug 23, 2006 4:13 pm

Can only speak for myself.. so my threepennies worth...

Grid... desireable rather than essential

The current DBF setup is incredibly useful and versatile.. so hopefully this won`t be neglected for any reason..

Re the Client Server or SQL DB's... For the most part I`d imagine that these would be required for custom applications rather than "Out Of The Box" apps... so choosing a representative format isn`t going to be that easy but Acess would seem to me to be the best all round choice.

However given the brilliant new Browser functions it's not too hard to set up PHP/MySQL for Windows + a server like Abyss - or other similar combinations and run this through NB... In other words some sort of enhanced NB infrastructure to facilitate connections to and manipulation of third party db's rather than going for one format. Worth a thought perhaps?
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Postby djold1 » Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:03 pm

"
Your point about the need for a better table/grid is well taken. Whatever is done with database plug-ins in the future will most likely include some type of enhanced table. "


Thanks for the reply. This is encouraging. Just one more quick thought on the subject of Tables:

While an editable, configurable Grid or Table engine is certainly necessary with any kind of a formal DB, it is also very useful on less critical matters as well. A good table handler can make display and editiig of delimited files in CSV or ASCII format much easier. List Boxes have limitations that Table handling overcomes.

So, I would like to suggest that the Grid/Table Engine be developed separately and far in advance of any new DB access engine. The two should not really be bound together as long as the Table can read the DB records and fields. There is no reason to wait to offer them together.

From a marketing standpoint, you will definitely want to separate the Table engine from any new DB engine because the customer may want only a Table that will work with the existing DB and might not be interested in SQL, etc.

For instance, I doubt that I will ever need anything more powerful than the present DB.

I would pay a reasonable amount for a separate editable Grid/Table engine that could work with the current DBF based DB and common delimited files. It would need to be fairly powerful cosmetically and operationally though.
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Postby TMcD » Fri Aug 25, 2006 10:34 am

djold1 wrote:"
Your point about the need for a better table/grid is well taken. Whatever is done with database plug-ins in the future will most likely include some type of enhanced table. "


Thanks for the reply. This is encouraging. Just one more quick thought on the subject of Tables:

While an editable, configurable Grid or Table engine is certainly necessary with any kind of a formal DB, it is also very useful on less critical matters as well. A good table handler can make display and editiig of delimited files in CSV or ASCII format much easier. List Boxes have limitations that Table handling overcomes.

So, I would like to suggest that the Grid/Table Engine be developed separately and far in advance of any new DB access engine. The two should not really be bound together as long as the Table can read the DB records and fields. There is no reason to wait to offer them together.

From a marketing standpoint, you will definitely want to separate the Table engine from any new DB engine because the customer may want only a Table that will work with the existing DB and might not be interested in SQL, etc.

For instance, I doubt that I will ever need anything more powerful than the present DB.

I would pay a reasonable amount for a separate editable Grid/Table engine that could work with the current DBF based DB and common delimited files. It would need to be fairly powerful cosmetically and operationally though.


I agree with Pete.

I want to have the interface and data structure separate. Meaning, I would like to be able to create grids/tables that have drop downs, check boxes, etc.

Here is an example:

http://www.devexpress.com/Products/VCL/ ... screen.png

http://www.devexpress.com/Products/VCL/ExQuantumGrid

Okay, now that the "presentation" part is out of the way, what do I want for data?

Both worlds. Desktop and Internet access.

Some applications I create are desktop based, others need Internet access.

Would I pay for it? Yes, and I have said that from day one.

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