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Some issues at NP5

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Some issues at NP5

Postby Freekcoof » Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:39 am

Hey guys, it's greeat to see layer support in Neopaint!

However, I stumbled upon several issues now...

- Using resize/resample on the whole image does still allow me to choose an interpolation method (Even more, then in Np4, which basically is great), however when I want to resize/resample a selection, this option is missing now.

- There is no way to deactivate interpolation with the rotation method. This is especially annoying, as it somehow even interpolates 90° rotations:

Image

- The mouse cam only shows the selected layer. I think, showing everything would be better.

- Selecting things and deciding, what goes transparant is... well, intransparent. I always end up making white rectangles like this:

Image

- Masks don't work in upper layers. Create a second layer, and there a circular outline. Select and create a mask from it. See, how anything doesn't do anything inside this mask...

-You can't use the Alt key anymore, to convert any tool to a line tool...

- go Steam :D
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Postby Neosoft Support » Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:29 pm

It's not your fault, but why does someone always post one of these laundry list things literally the day after we release an update? :(

- Using resize/resample on the whole image does still allow me to choose an interpolation method (Even more, then in Np4, which basically is great), however when I want to resize/resample a selection, this option is missing now.


The quality of the resampling is much improved over v4, but you're right there is currently no option to choose a resample method when resizing a selection. I'm not sure why this is exactly, but I'll add this to the list of things to look into for the next update. In the mean time you can always copy and past the selection as a new image to gain more control over how it's resampled.

- There is no way to deactivate interpolation with the rotation method. This is especially annoying, as it somehow even interpolates 90° rotations:


If you use the 90° rotation commands from the Picture menu there should be no interpolation. If you rotate interactively, then you probably will see some anti-aliasing depending on the content, because we're using a different rotation algorithm.

- The mouse cam only shows the selected layer. I think, showing everything would be better.


That might be an interesting option for the future, but it might be too slow especially when an image contains many layers.

- Selecting things and deciding, what goes transparant is... well, intransparent. I always end up making white rectangles like this:


I wasn't able to reproduce your results here. Using either the Fixed or Custom transparency options you should be able to set the black areas of your selection as transparent. I didn't have any trouble doing that here with what I think is an image similar to yours, but you may be doing something different.

- Masks don't work in upper layers. Create a second layer, and there a circular outline. Select and create a mask from it. See, how anything doesn't do anything inside this mask...


You're right about this. Upper layers are initially transparent and you can't create a selection that contains nothing. It's not possible to create a mask from an empty selection with nothing in it. What you can do is create your mask on the background layer, then switch to the upper layers for drawing.

-You can't use the Alt key anymore, to convert any tool to a line tool...


Unfortunately, some of the new (otherwise vastly superior) components we used for v5 did not support this feature. However, we hope to be able to add this in the future.
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Postby Freekcoof » Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:30 am

Neosoft Support wrote:It's not your fault, but why does someone always post one of these laundry list things literally the day after we release an update? :(


To keep the on the fun at your work, of course! :D Sorry. ;)
But seriously, there is still a lot of work involved in this, especially with the upper layers I experienced some funny stuff... I didn't recapture everything for this post, you know? ;)

If you use the 90° rotation commands from the Picture menu there should be no interpolation. If you rotate interactively, then you probably will see some anti-aliasing depending on the content, because we're using a different rotation algorithm.


I used this very command. The interpolation (Or rather antialiasing) happens when deselecting, and there is no edge feathering involved... However, I wish, I would be able to turn off interpolation for every rotation. Sometimes, it's better to repair the work by hand...
Reproduce this with an non antialiased thicker curved line. Boxes or straight lines might be rotated correctly.

I wasn't able to reproduce your results here. Using either the Fixed or Custom transparency options you should be able to set the black areas of your selection as transparent. I didn't have any trouble doing that here with what I think is an image similar to yours, but you may be doing something different.


My fault, I didn't see the "Remove background under cutout" option. However, deactivating it causes funny effects when selecting semi transparent stuff at higher layers (Like a simple drawn thing, using a higher edge value)

You're right about this. Upper layers are initially transparent and you can't create a selection that contains nothing. It's not possible to create a mask from an empty selection with nothing in it. What you can do is create your mask on the background layer, then switch to the upper layers for drawing.


Oh, but I didn't try to make a selection of nothing, but of stuff drawn on that layer of course. Selecting wasn't even a problem.
I wanted to remark, that it is strange, as the program SHOWS a correct mask, but when I tried to reproduce it now, the masks in the upper layers actually did work. (Maybe it was the patch?) Using them wasn't the best idea with semi transparent stuff - it changed those a bit. But now I can create the mask from any selection in any layer I want, and transport it up to a new layer to work there.

Unfortunately, some of the new (otherwise vastly superior) components we used for v5 did not support this feature. However, we hope to be able to add this in the future.


I see, but it would be enough to activate it for the supported tools, for me. ;) Or are you referencing some inner structure, that won't allow this even for the standard paint brush?

Another suggestion: I would be nice to be able to combine and merge layers directly in the layer window, and not only at the layer menu. It would be even nicer to be able to just merge one layer to the one under it, without making the rest invisible. ;)

So have fun with the new laundry. :)
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Postby Neosoft Support » Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:23 am

I have printed your message and will add it to our list of things to think about for the next update.

But seriously, there is still a lot of work involved in this, especially with the upper layers I experienced some funny stuff...


I don't really understand what you mean by "funny stuff", but if you can identify specific things that are causing problems for you, we can look into it.
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Re: Some issues at NP5

Postby Freekcoof » Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:25 am

Sure, when I'm using it again, I will try to recreate any problem I find, and write it down the instance it occurs. :)

One thing I already mentioned is, that selecting things can directly change semi transparent stuff in the upper layers.
Another would be the quite strange long loading time on a x64 Win7 Machine, featuring a core i5 and a SSD.
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Re: Some issues at NP5

Postby Neosoft Support » Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:14 am

One thing I already mentioned is, that selecting things can directly change semi transparent stuff in the upper layers.
Another would be the quite strange long loading time on a x64 Win7 Machine, featuring a core i5 and a SSD.


I'm not able to reproduce either of these things here. NeoPaint load very quickly on all of the PCs we have here. It could be that your anti-virus software unnecessarily scanning the exe each time it runs.
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